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Dragon Field Training - waste of dias/money?



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Poll: Field Training (108 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think that chance for skill transfer should be increased?

  1. Yes (89 votes [81.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 81.65%

  2. No (18 votes [16.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.51%

  3. Don''t care, I never use that option (2 votes [1.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.83%

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#1 Tulkas

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 17:17

HI,

 

recently I have been trying to teach my dragons new skills. Unfortunately with current setting its close to impossible mission. To prove my theory I spent thousands diamonds on field training option. Today I would say I was lucky, 22 attempts, 3x free + 19x 49 dias end up with 1 skill transferred.

 

Generally speaking, 4.5% chance (1/22) looks fair enough, but dont forget there is equally chance (1/3) that dice will roll on side for dragon A could learn skill or dragon B could learn skill or no dragon could learn skill. Combining probabilities of those two independent events we comes to following result that chance for learning new skill via field training interface is less than 1,5%.

 

I strongly believe that current settings for field training is not fair.

 

Yes, I send ticket about this but I want to hear your opinion too.

 

Thanks.



#2 Zentari2238

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 18:25

I believe we should be able to choose WHAT skills we intend to transfer at least instead of a free-for-all random that can eat your slots, time and money if it happens to be useless skill.

Heck, since the game's focus are the dragons (let's face it, it's the main attraction to say the least ),why is a part of dragon system the made to feel punishing , instead of rewarding ? This, I believe, is one of the biggest things holding the game from attracting new players , as well as being one of the most obvious parts of the game that have gone wrong.

 

Sure, I have ancients and rares that I will keep training with meticulous care to get all the skills I want.But I'm not exactly the average player; Played from CB, have the big founders pack, currently leveling an alt after my oracle hit lvl 60 and got a ton of legendaries as well as Balge.This is not bragging, I don't consider myself skilled or anything : it's a simple indication of the amount of time I have put into this game.As far as I'm concerned ,I'll just have to keep trying and be VERY careful in what dragon I get to transfer skills to my dragons.

 

But what does mr.average guy think ? The one who heard of DP and thought "Hm, an MMO with dragons,eh ? Let's check it out".How does he feel when the whole situation hits him in the face ? Do you really believe that he will be as persistent as I, or any other high level player, is ? Or that he will feel rewarded from it ? 

 

This is what get's under my skin with this game; the way it's handled.We have payments inserted in core elements of it, instead of the core elements being simple and the payments being based on extras.

 

An example of the first thing is the current system,where a misstep can cost time and/or money, and lots of it .

The second example would be a system under which you had FULL control of the dragon's training.

 

It's obvious the first presses people to payments but how can the second one do so ? The solution is extras ;We already equip our dragons with armor, why not go for something more ornamental ? Or even tattoos ? Heck, if you WANT to have something with impact in gameplay, how about extra slots ? That way,it's not about being pushed to be able to do something ,it's about unlocking something new : a battle armor for Onyx Smoke, an extra slot for a caster dragon etc.

Since he can also farm insignia's, none of these things are ground breaking in themselves, even the slot one (not to mention, you CAN find a dragon with slots,even legendaries).They are however, something ON TOP of a system than something that's a part of it.All carrot, no stick in this.

 

Unfortunately , while the second option might be more user-friendly , it's also the one  that, from the company's side, requires hard work to pay off : How do you design ornamental armor for dragons to use ? Is it bulky ? Elegant ? What about the tattoos ? What kind of color/type they are ? These are some of the questions that need to be answered BEFORE the actual work on them even starts.

 

Apologies for the rambling, just wanted to share my thoughts on this aspect of the game.

Hope my thoughts were ,if not well worded, at least clear.

I consider issues to be more about the design rather than the quantity (i.e. prices here vs prices on the US client).

 

 

 

 



#3 Aeva

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 22:10

 

This is what get's under my skin with this game; the way it's handled.We have payments inserted in core elements of it, instead of the core elements being simple and the payments being based on extras.

 

^ THIS. Totally feel the same way, right from day one, this was the first major flaw I picked up. For example the stable slots (start off with 2, maximum of 5) I can collect more mounts in a non-dragon based MMO  than I can in a pure dragon-based MMO  :blink:  :huh: You need to PAY for things which should come standard across the board, not just to exclusive players.



#4 Yokor

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 22:39

Sorry guys i have to disagree with that. In my opinion the chance is really fine , maybe they should increase from 3 to 5 times a day but do not change actuall rate. Game can't be easy , you have to try your best to get specific skill :)

 I tried to get full spells so many times that i actually forget about increasing levels of the skills :P

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BTW good luck with putting skills into your dragon ;3 It's really hard but gives a lot of satisfaction ;3


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#5 Zentari2238

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 04:45

Sorry guys i have to disagree with that. In my opinion the chance is really fine , maybe they should increase from 3 to 5 times a day but do not change actuall rate. Game can't be easy , you have to try your best to get specific skill :)

Easy != simple and functional.Try all you want, it's not in your hands, it's all about the RNG. Besides, as I said, it's not about people downright determined to get THAT skill on their dragons, it's about the guy who simply tries the MMO out and plays casually.

 

Responses like this fall along the lines of " Hey, you just want it free !" ,"In my opinion, things are fine" etc, which are not exactly based on arguments.What part of it is fine ? How so and compared to what ? How does it affect my own argument ? Have I misinterpreted something or drawn the wrong conclusion ? 



#6 Jadefeather

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 15:45

It's not an attitude of "give it to me free"

 

I spent 829 diamonds today on whips - not a single transferred skill.  That is after cleaning off undesired skills so that if a transfer occurred I would get the correct one.

 

There is also the fact that either dragon could gain the skill - which reduces the opportunity to accomplish the task.

 

While it is unlikely that the % of successfully transfering a skill will be raised - unless it turns out to be a feature that Infernum directly can manipulate (i.e. such as when games give the publisher control over exp gain - remember the first weekend after open beta started).  I have a different minor solution for them.  If I spend the funds on diamonds, I feel that the whip should reset the training field.  Why am I paying 49 diamonds for 1 chance?  The training whip or straight up paying should reset the count to 3/3.  Players will still have to deal with the low transfer rate but will feel less about it being such a "cash cow"



#7 Yokor

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 19:34

Easy != simple and functional.Try all you want, it's not in your hands, it's all about the RNG. Besides, as I said, it's not about people downright determined to get THAT skill on their dragons, it's about the guy who simply tries the MMO out and plays casually.

 

Responses like this fall along the lines of " Hey, you just want it free !" ,"In my opinion, things are fine" etc, which are not exactly based on arguments.What part of it is fine ? How so and compared to what ? How does it affect my own argument ? Have I misinterpreted something or drawn the wrong conclusion ? 

calm down brother , i'm not here to offend anyone i just said that whole system looks fine FOR ME. Yes, that's true that is hard to get skills by field but i don't think that it is really necessary to increase whole rate of possibility . People like me have dragons with spells so why don't you be more patient in that and continue what r you doing. There is no need to be angry or something just like you said , it is a game.

 

It's not an attitude of "give it to me free"

 

I spent 829 diamonds today on whips - not a single transferred skill.  That is after cleaning off undesired skills so that if a transfer occurred I would get the correct one.

 

There is also the fact that either dragon could gain the skill - which reduces the opportunity to accomplish the task.

 

While it is unlikely that the % of successfully transfering a skill will be raised - unless it turns out to be a feature that Infernum directly can manipulate (i.e. such as when games give the publisher control over exp gain - remember the first weekend after open beta started).  I have a different minor solution for them.  If I spend the funds on diamonds, I feel that the whip should reset the training field.  Why am I paying 49 diamonds for 1 chance?  The training whip or straight up paying should reset the count to 3/3.  Players will still have to deal with the low transfer rate but will feel less about it being such a "cash cow"

you are very unlucky , yesterday i put in this dragon intelligence enchantment with 5-7 tries ... And to be fair i have never had problems like that, always up to 12 times max ( using diamond increase your chances that's true but to be fair if you don't feel lucky that day just give up.. you won't get any ;/)  


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#8 Shadiz

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 02:21

I agree with this topic, even though there was, apparently, chance increase with the last patch, I still find myself unable to transfer even one skill with 16 tries.

 

A good system to implement would also be to have a % chance on skill transfer that SHOWS in your window when you hoover your mouse over it - eg. 5% chance for level 1, 10% for 2, 15% for 3, 20% for 4 and so on, with final 50% chance if the skill is level 10... I believe that would be fair and square. :)



#9 Zentari2238

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 10:34

calm down brother , i'm not here to offend anyone i just said that whole system looks fine FOR ME. Yes, that's true that is hard to get skills by field but i don't think that it is really necessary to increase whole rate of possibility . People like me have dragons with spells so why don't you be more patient in that and continue what r you doing. There is no need to be angry or something just like you said , it is a game.

 

Which is something that is unsubstantiated.A system can work fine for someone no matter how contrived and bad it is, just like it can be seen as bad now matter how good it actually is .I ask that if you want to discuss this seriously, you at least take the time to construct some definitive arguments instead of throwing us a screenshot of a fully trained dragon and saying "No, I did it,so it's fine".

Case in point:

1)The system is based on random chance.Nothing you do can affect it, all you can do at best is give it another roll via diamonds/insignias.

2)Three rolls total PER DAY which a chance of passing a skill, ANY skill from any of those two dragons to the other one.Only way to affect that is to get on a catching spree and get a dragon with the skills you want to transfer, hopefully without empty slots and gathering skills, if you are building for combat.

^Are there any counter-arguments against these two points ? Besides from "I think it's fine !"? Honestly , I don't think so, but you might surprise me.

 

Lastly, I'm not being angry , just confrontational.When you put forth an argument it's on you to provide the basis for it.You didn't, you dismissed the points brought so far (didn't even try to at least address some of the points) and then proceeded to claim something under the blanket statement "it's my opinion".Does that seem like an ok conduct to you ? Why are you so surprised when you get called out on it ?


Edited by Zentari2238, 07 July 2013 - 10:35.


#10 Kurenai

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:12

So much wall of text, in short, yes they should increase xD


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#11 Xaphiar

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:32

Last 9 field trainings nothing learned to either dragon, anyone would get Balge by that time. Enough said :P


Edited by Xaphiar, 08 July 2013 - 09:33.

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#12 Tulkas

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:08

Update, for those who thinks we are impatient, lazy etc. I made another experiment.

 

Experiment settings: Midnight Shade training level 4 and Pale Radiance training level 3. Both dragons has  3 skills and 4+ empty slots. All skills are different which lead to 6 skill in total as candidate for transfer.

 

Day 1, 3 x free attempts followed by 3 x 49 dias result 0 skills transferred

Day 2, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

Day 3, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

Day 4, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

Day 5, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

 

For the record, 30 attempts 0 skill transferred. To be continued ...

 

p.s. Zentari2238 thank you very much for awesome posts. 



#13 Mis

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 14:42

i got the following experience

wich do not give me a smile on my face

 

https://www.dragonsp...ce/#entry121922



#14 Zakarosh

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:28

Update, for those who thinks we are impatient, lazy etc. I made another experiment.

 

Experiment settings: Midnight Shade training level 4 and Pale Radiance training level 3. Both dragons has  3 skills and 4+ empty slots. All skills are different which lead to 6 skill in total as candidate for transfer.

 

Day 1, 3 x free attempts followed by 3 x 49 dias result 0 skills transferred

Day 2, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

Day 3, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

Day 4, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

Day 5, 3 x free + 3 x 49 dias === 0 skills transferred

 

For the record, 30 attempts 0 skill transferred. To be continued ...

 

p.s. Zentari2238 thank you very much for awesome posts. 

 

What to say... totally unacceptable : (


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"Groar!" he said, then I handed him a big big steak.


#15 Zephir

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 17:05

Agree.

 

Don´t know the last time my Dragon learned a skill...


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#16 Adamas

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 22:32

i got the following experience

wich do not give me a smile on my face

 

https://www.dragonsp...ce/#entry121922

 

Why do i have the felling im here to play for fun - a lot of things are not set proper - thats not a big fun. From the CB i was a lot online buying D stuffs etc now im login 1 time per day to set dragons for training. What to say.

And yes its WASTE of D and money to train dragon. 



#17 roksharoo

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:18

I strongly disagree... you simply need to be patint, if you were able to pass all the skills you wanted on your dragon in one week and train them to lvl 10/10 while also raising your dragon lvl to 100 with no effort what will be left to do for you?

 

nothing.

 

thats the biggest problom you guys, with 0 pations, have.. you fail to see the outcome of your request... if this was easyer then it is you will stop playing the game all toghter.

 

also i find the rate quit fine, today i passed 2 diffrent skills for the same dragon, dosnt happen alot but i dont remeber more then 3 days of not passing any skills ever happning..



#18 Mis

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 18:53

Rok..... 2 skills transfered out of 96 trys , dont tell me about patience,  i have a better chance

getting struck by lightning directly in the BEEP  :)



#19 Adamas

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 20:36

I strongly disagree... you simply need to be patint, if you were able to pass all the skills you wanted on your dragon in one week and train them to lvl 10/10 while also raising your dragon lvl to 100 with no effort what will be left to do for you?

 

nothing.

 

thats the biggest problom you guys, with 0 pations, have.. you fail to see the outcome of your request... if this was easyer then it is you will stop playing the game all toghter.

 

also i find the rate quit fine, today i passed 2 diffrent skills for the same dragon, dosnt happen alot but i dont remeber more then 3 days of not passing any skills ever happning..

 

Pations to play 5 years 1 game or ? No ty i already has play 8 years 1 game and belive me i have a tons of pations when something is worth for it.  Example from today --- extraction 300+ flutes no blue or purple normal flutes - 5 days till today 0 skills transferred. Awesome :)  if u have 2-3 ancients u can train them 1 year and you can start playing with them, but if u have 5 -6 - 7 i dont wana thing about it how much time :) After 2-3 months will come new patch with new dragons and so on and i can train dragons all my life - not bad at all. Login transfer nothing, in the next day again and again .......... If im correct i play DP with dragons not preparing dragons to play some day. Simple game is for fun.



#20 kamikitten

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 14:26

My little opinion is that the free attempts can sure fail but when you use money/diamonds, the dragon must learn a skill, even if it's the gather one. Plus that dia field cost for a thingy that fails anyway is bit too much. One day I used diamonds on 5 attempts for the field and failed those 5 tries.  Dragon training will never see my diamonds again. I have a lot of patience and I rather use the  free 3 attemps daily and have the luck or not and spend my dia on something better than field training that might fail again anyway.





 



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